FireWing Queen is being a tyrant?

Just opening this topic to discuss about the FireWings leadership.

I feel her leadership isn't being good. When people tend to disobey to the leader, it means the leader is a bad one.

I believe Kenina is a tyrant, considering also she ignores the majority of FireWings are cocky and unpredictable by nature. She can't just punish or imprison them.

What are your opinion on this? I'd like this site won't take the tyrantship direction. Leaders aren't supposed to be tyrants.

While it is true the tribe's leader word is "law", we aren't in a military accademy where the boss-character cruelly commands and force others to follow orders, Otherwise they're punished.

There're feelings involved when people roleplay characters, and they put their personalities inside the characters. I believe this cannot be ignored.

I hope other leaders will not take Kenina's direction. I feel what's happening would compromise the friendly and peaceful atmopshere. Most of all, the tyrantship system only suffucates characters personalities.

This is of course only my opinion. What do you think about this?

You disobeyed your leader in the midst of a high risk situation. Imprisonment is merciful, not tyrannical.

Oculus wrote:You disobeyed your leader in the midst of a high risk situation.  Imprisonment is merciful, not tyrannical.

In this case, imprisonment is being tyrannical. Volcanis has clearly said that Kenina's decisions were being not good because this would risk to kill Ausurath and terrorize him. Volcanis has also explained the political issues because Gemini will get angry.

On my perspective, it is clearly tyrantship that Kenina isn't understanding. Of course the tyrant will always claim is doing good for the tribe, while it isn't always true. I feel Kenina's ideals have a twisted kind of corruption.

This is my interpretation of the situation.

Its bound to fall apart or backfire, Time kills everything.

Lao wrote:Its bound to fall apart or backfire, Time kills everything.  

When a tribe's leader is a bad one, yes, time will kill everything.

I'm also of the idea that a good leader is only good when accepted by everyone.

This doesn't necessarily make the tribes all equal. There're ways of ruling that can be different.

When many characters tend to disobey leaders, the leader is a bad one. Not the disobedient. So generally the fault needs to be found in the tribe's leader, not in tribe members.

Let me rephrase what you said, just to give you a different perspective. Kenina's decision to pursue this rare opportunity to retrieve AuSurath for their ally, is bad because it will scare the hatchling, so it'd be better to let them escape? Letting the 'kidnapper' of Gemini's adopted son leave without pursuit wouldn't anger Gemini, but making Au scared in retrieving him would anger her? Volcanis stopped Kenina from rescuing the 'kidnapped' hatchling, letting Wisp get away, so imprisoning him is wrong?

Just throwing a different perspective. Can't be single minded to see the entire situation.

Ocu, I said I'd be waiting at an island though. All Gemini has to do is come to get Au, who is apparently gonna die anyway ((*tear tear*)) I think that Keninas not tyrannical, she just seems more harsh. But leaders can be harsh. Hideki Tojo, Stalin, most of any Emporers or Shoguns ever.... they were sort of bad tempered.

Lets say for a second that people decided I was a tyrant. Am I to believe this topic was but a poll to debate how morally right or wrong I was. I find it hard to believe that would be your only motive.

Okay. One thing. Its just rp. If it was her being rude it being actual members or like abusing her admin powers then I think it would be a problem. Second. Firewings are hot headed, rude, quick to act and feisty. If they have a carefree, careless leader that doesn't punish them Firewings will be even disobedient then they already are. A tribe needs stability and if the leader doesn't take control then whats a tribe without a leader.
I know you say that its making her a tyrant to take Volcanis and the other character who's name I can't remember into the cells. Haven't you ever seen conflicts and such where they have to send some people away to fights don't start. Volcanis is the hot headed giant we know and honestly we know he is gonna start a fight to Kenina in the rp prevented it. I have now spoken what I think is right. Carry on.

Err guys, a leader, not a tyrant, guides its people, listen to them, try to find the better way to make its people feel good and fight with them

I was surprised by the reaction because i thought that kenina would not like to push its member but rather prefer to find a way to solve the problem

Oculus wrote:Let me rephrase what you said, just to give you a different perspective.  Kenina's decision to pursue this rare opportunity to retrieve AuSurath for their ally, is bad because it will scare the hatchling, so it'd be better to let them escape?  Letting the 'kidnapper' of Gemini's adopted son leave without pursuit wouldn't anger Gemini, but making Au scared in retrieving him would anger her?  Volcanis stopped Kenina from rescuing the 'kidnapped' hatchling, letting Wisp get away, so imprisoning him is wrong?

Just throwing a different perspective.  Can't be single minded to see the entire situation.

Volcanis has never said "don't chase the IceWings". What he has said, trying to retrieve the hatcling by force like that, would only terrorize him or risk to kill it. Volcanis was actually suggesting to go after the IceWings.

Besides that, another problem is that Kenina has just talked about insurdination, but completely ignoring opinions or not trying to lessen the tension without appearing as a true tyrant. Kenina was exactly acting like a tyrant would do.

Lucia wrote:Second. Firewings are hot headed, rude, quick to act and feisty. If they have a carefree, careless leader that doesn't punish them Firewings will be even disobedient then they already are. A tribe needs stability and if the leader doesn't take control then whats a tribe without a leader.

So the way to control the FireWings is to have a cruel leader that bullies others into obedience, like a tyrant would do. It is still tyrantship. A carefree leader doesn't mean is naive. It'll need to see how to play around the hot Firewings personalities. I believe it is actually possible.

Lucia wrote:I know you say that its making her a tyrant to take Volcanis and the other character who's name I can't remember into the cells. Haven't you ever seen conflicts and such where they have to send some people away to fights don't start. Volcanis is the hot headed giant we know and honestly we know he is gonna start a fight to Kenina in the rp prevented it. I have now spoken what I think is right. Carry on.

Still thinking about Volcanis reaction. It is a very hard situation, since Volcanis would be forced to fight a semi-god. Need to think about it.

Wisp wrote:I think that Keninas not tyrannical, she just seems more harsh. But leaders can be harsh. Hideki Tojo, Stalin, most of any Emporers or Shoguns ever.... they were sort of bad tempered

All those leaders have indeed done crimes against humanity, so they're much worse than tyrannical. You're indeed supporting my point that Kenina is a tyrant leader.

Kenina wrote:Lets say for a second that people decided I was a tyrant. Am I to believe this topic was but a poll to debate how morally right or wrong I was. I find it hard to believe that would be your only motive.

Absolutely not. This topic is only a discussion towards the FireWings leadership.

Now, the fact Kenina can be a bad leader, I'm not debating you being morally wrong or right. I know your interest is to give the best leader for the FireWings. The point is: can this leadership actually work for the FireWings?

Anyway, it is the decision to order imprisonment I believe it is the very bad one. Imprisoning characters would cause too many contrasts.

ANyway, It can be acceptable that a tribe can be lead by a tyrant, because we're roleplaying afterall and we need villains. Having a villain can open different plots. Hopefully this leadership will not turn into a slaughterhouse, because I'm afraid it is the direction it would take.

You're speaking as if tyrants are a bad thing. Julius Caesar was a tyrant, but he was loved, by his people until he was assassinated by one jealous of his power. I love you Atlas, but the judgement is a bit harsh for having said she was going to lock somebody up only once.

guys, sorry but, do you really know the difference and the meaning of leader - bad/good king/queen and tyrant?
but i just wanted to say that i dind't expected the queen/leader to command without listening to the sincere words of Erinyes that's all, this is not good xD you can say that she is severe and can react like this yeah, but don't tell me that it's a good behaviour

and for the rest, personally, to me it looks like "if you do not act like i want you to, you are banished or locked and it's a personal thing now" D: I mean...really???

anyway..just because someone is from a tribe it doesnt mean that it does have the same behaviour, as for the firewing, there hot heads and not, same for all the tribes, a free and unique dragons ha its personality and temperament don't you agree? otherway write a description would be absurd, because everyone are the same because of the tribe...? XD what?! XD

Wisp wrote:You're speaking as if tyrants are a bad thing. Julius Caesar was a tyrant, but he was loved, by his people until he was assassinated by one jealous of his power. I love you Atlas, but the judgement is a bit harsh for having said she was going to lock somebody up only once.

I thank you for love's declaration

Generally, tyrants are bad. Julius Caesar was a controversial and complex person. He was revered, but also hated for his cruelty. He wasn't certainly a good person, considering he's guilty of terrible crimes.

Anyway, a leadership that is based on mere obedience is always a fail because it turns to destroy the life, dignity, and freedom of others. It is clear Kenina is taking this direction.

Wisp, you're completely ignoring the points of Volcanis and Erinyes (which Wisp the character has explained to the FireWings!), but you'ree defending outright Kenina. She was a tyrant with her behaviour, with no doubts.

However, as I have said, it can be fine the FireWings can become a tribe of villains. Kenina is planning to conquer the world, afterall, so she's a villain. I'm afraid with time this will just fall apart.

I really don't have the energy for this but it appears I'm not being given much choice. Oh and btw according to your definition of tyrant that makes every single military in the current real life world terribly tyranical. I also think I should remind you all that all the tribes are very military focused. List of ranks that aren't in the tribe military:
Wise Ones
Mothers
Hatchlings
Trainee
Scholars
Citizens

List of ranks that are in the tribe military:
Tribe Leaders
Lieutenants
Healers
Guardians
Trackers

Vulcan is a bit questionable.

Real quick lets take a look at Volcanis's rank and Erinyes's rank. Lets see here Volcanis previously was a guardian and now is a king with reduced authority powers. He also isn't going to be locked up in prison. Now lets look at Erinyes. Seems like shes a tracker. So their both in the military.

Now lets look at the situation that unfolded real quick. Tensions between the three tribes where high. Both the FireWings and EarthWings were demanding the IceWings hand the prince over. The IceWings as a whole never really state their position but they certainly aren't in any rush to decide their position. In the mean time Wisp justifies herself with no thought to the political effect this has on all the tribes there. All of which is in the IceWings disadvantage. After justifying her action Wisp bolts off and Kenina is quick to react. She orders the prince to be retrieved and if any of the other IceWings interfered it was going to mean war which they ended up not. Then suddenly Erinyes pops in out of nowhere disobeying her queens orders jumps in the middle of everything and insults every single person there. This looks incredibly bad for the FireWings I mean I feel sorry for all the EarthWings have had to deal with during that. I mean they are the only ones there who looked to be a respectable tribe despite the terrible feast idea.

""you all are talking about him like a prize to win! you all what to decide for him, not listening to the icewing that took care of him as I could undertand! And with this intimidatory attitude you are terrorizing ausurath!!!" she shooked her head "are you all completely out of mind!? with this dangerous behaviour and menacing each other do you think you are doing good?!""

Well as I described in one of me earlier posts this is much bigger that just AuSurath. We don't want to scare the hatchling and indeed wish him to be in a good living environment, but right now he needs to be taken from the IceWings at all cost or a war is going to break out and people are going to die. Because of the IceWings decision to bring the hatchling to the feast the FireWings are going to look bad to the NightWings and hurt our relations with them. Something we don't want to do. On top of that if after the FireWings demanded the EarthWings help out in this situation as their allies the EarthWings would look bad by refusing appearing to support their alliance with the IceWings over the FireWings. Which makes the EarthWings out to be the NightWings enemies which Cossy stated in an earlier post they don't want to do.

"and anyway where is his mother?! I dont' see her, do you?!" she looked around, it was obvious "this dragon has the right to decide what to do! none of you, neither me, should risk a war because of that stupid obsession to comand and control the life of another one!!!"

Um wasn't it already described OUTLOUD that this was a privet feast with the IceWings and FireWings. The NightWings were not invited. If they were to show up at the feast uninvited it could spell war. All that aside though how could the NightWings have even known Au was there!!!!! Its not like the IceWings sent a letter to the NightWings going "We're bring your prince to the feast a week from now" or anything like that. There is no way they could have known Au was going to be there.

"As allies this stil doesn't concern you, not in first person! you should try to mantain good relations, you are allied, not tyrant!!! No right to do this to anyone, not to any single dragons that lives in all Pyyria! !!"

Is does concern them!!! This could lead to war!!!!

"And where is his family? I don't see not a single nightwings here! On the countrary of being mad, because an Icewing took care of an outlander dragon, from another race and tribe, you all and expecially Gemini..." yes, she dared to say her name "..should be gratefull for that!! don't you see ? this is madness!!!"

Ok well now that Au i healed and taken care of why hasn't he been returned that freaking kidnapping!

Now let me point out something Erinyes said ooc in her post.
"(please tell me if i wrote something wrong and if I can join it, the situation it's not very clear to me)"
Do I even need to comment? No offence but I'm being forced on the defensive here.

So after this all happens Erinyes's post ends up causing Volcanis to rebel the freaking King. Now we FireWings are looking really really really bad. I mean is it just me or are me Cossy and Solstice the only ones in this rp who understand what all these actions would cause and how they look to the other tribes. your all talking about oh think of the hatchling and its feeling but not thinking about the hundreds and hundreds of dragons who might get hurt and or killed as a result of this all. If Au were to be retrieved in that topic it could prevent a war between the NightWings and IceWings. IceWings being a natural enemy to the FireWings and the FireWings being allied with the IceWings you better bet the FireWings are going to join in on this war. And after all that just happened in the feast I highly doubt the EarthWings are going to give any support to the IceWings. I mean anyone you look at this the IceWings are freaking screwed unless they don't go to war in the first place which is what Kenina is trying to prevent believe it or not! I mean if you want me to be a heartless tyrant then ok war with the IceWings!!!!!! This is our chance to crush them!!!!!!!!!

Now I could end with that but I think I want to point something out in one of Wisps posts

"I had planned to return Au as soon as I found his mother, or vice versa. However, I came to realise that an adept mother would not leave her hatchlings gone so long without a team searching for him, nor would she let him get kidnapped in the first place, if she had been watching him correctly. So I kept him with me, where he was safe. Two months passed, and no attempts were made to retrieve Au. Yet, I come here and you all claim I stole him?" She shook her head, sighing. "I offer a compromise. I will wait on the island off of the coast of IceWing territory. Au's mother can come there and retrieve him herself, and prove to me that she actually cares. Sending guards is proving nothing but that she feels possession, not love. So there I will wait, and there I will only speak to her."  

If any of you actually accepted this excuse any way at all then I'm going to go over to this little corner over here and bang my head against the wall till all this insanity stops.

Wisp has no way of knowing if Gemini had been searching for him or not. Do you have spies in the NightWings telling you every move they make? Not kidnapped in the first place!!!! You realize you just insulted every single mother in the whole world whos had their children kidnapped. I'm half tempted to go find some support community where those mothers go to work through the trauma they have experienced and sick them all on you. Actually better yet I'm going to have Astral kidnap Au the very moment Wisp isn't looking and be all like oh nope hes mine now you should have been keeping a closer eye on him or he wouldn't have been kidnapped from you. You have no idea if Gemini was being a good mother or not. For all you know Au could have been ripped right out of Gemini's arms as a hoard of humans attacked her. I mean your just begging to be slapped at that statement.

I mean no offence to anyone but this entire was just a whole lot of stupid at every turn. Even the FireWings were made to look stupid and you better bet Kenina is not going to let that go unpunished and you better bet no military in the world would leave something like that unpunished. Heck for that you very easily could have gone to jail for years or in less forgiving country's for life. Kenina is just going to keep them there till she can come back home and give them a lecture.

Now please don't make me argue this out any further I seriously don't have the time for it. Really busy.

what? just because there is a "military system" it doesn't allow you to have a rigid/aggressive behaviour, exception if it's the charachter personality, I don't know why you always be upset when someone do not write what you want! Erin reaction it's natural seeying this chaos, Kenina simply shut down its own members or bring them to jail?! this is not what i call good leader or queen, and anyway I see the problem it's with you, you get mad at everything if it's not "your way" military system? PLEASE this is a roleplay we should just write and relax and enjoy it, not do a war between us!!! And anyway there was a poll about leaders (people follow the leader and the leader do not force them) or kingdom system, but i see...that almost everyone ignored this rule! I didn't said anything but if this is the way you want to carry on the website, let me say that you are making people feel sick

I'd be fine with just relaxing and rping. I'm also not doing this to get my way.

People make polls and they complain about not having site wide plots or they want a war between tribes. But when it gets down to it they all back off and start complaining to the people that were trying to make it happen like right now!

Also I suggest you don't speak for other people. Before I made that post I was talking in the chat and I actually got support from the people in the chat to do it that way and after the post was finished it received praise. So far you and Atlas seem to be the only ones that are having a problem with it. Also I'm not upset OOC that Erinyes did that. I'm upset OOC that you did that and then complain when the leader of the tribe gets upset IC and does something about it.

Beside that the only time I get upset about someones rping is when I set a setting like oh its day time right now and then someone doesn't bother to read my post and goes oh yea no its night contradiction my post. I'm not the only one this happens to either.

Also I don't think you understand that this site is not entirely run by the players. Its run by the staff. The members can give suggestions but they can't make polls and create rules on their own. They need staff approval. Otherwise I guarantee you the members of the site would run it into the ground. I have lots of experience creating and running many successful sites. I know what I'm doing and its working as it always does. I should also remind you that this isn't just me. Me and Phantom work very closely together. Its not like I don't talk to her about this stuff.

first, there were more people that agreed with the leader idea, and the staff approoved it
but this is the less important thing
I never complained and I adapted myself, saying that a tribe could choose what to do, but not that way, crashing the opinions of others :/
I may do not speak for people, but neither you are, who you think you are? because of the rank we can't have a normal debate? you are the one right and i'm all wrong?

the last thing i want its to have a fight-chat" with you

then, my comment in erinyes reaction have its meaning, first it was just a surprise for me, not complaining, but looking at this closer and thinking about this conversation
I was surprised as erin was, and i didn't expect the queen to just "put her in jail" woah thank you, really nice xD at least you could have told me if you didn't liked the erin or volc reaction in person, i know you have always something to say abou me or atlas like if we are making a team againt everyone, let me say that it's not like that.

" i know you have always something to say abou me or atlas like if we are making a team againt everyone, let me say that it's not like that."

Please don't make assumptions. I have never said anything like that.

Also I can speak for the people in this instance. I should have grabbed all the chat logs to show you. I was not expecting such a topic like this to come up though.

Yes telling you Kenina wouldn't have liked that would have been best but its hard to do. We can't just stop the topic every time something like this comes up and if you don't act fast enough next thing you know 2 hours later there 4 new posts that totally mix up everything. Going back and trying to reverse it would be crazy.

I did try to talk to Ark on the chat about it but found out it wasn't Ark who decided the post it was Atlantis. I did talk to Atlantis about it over skype and we did figure out a way we could fix this from happening in the future. Unfortunately I had no way of quickly contacting you. All I had was PM and that wouldn't have worked. It is really important to be active on the chatbox a lot happens there.

allright then, but hey about the first thing, it's a feeling i do have, if you do not let me know
i hope things like this will not happen again, i mean, we can always talk about it out of the RP and try to help each other to understand others point of view,
and in rp don't take it personal, but ..can you just be a little more ... gentle as queen? XD

Yea I will admit my Kenina character is pretty rough in general. She has a very clear drive and goal. It would be good for character development is someone where to teach her how to be more gentle. How we would go about that I have no idea as of this moment. Who knows maybe Kenina and Erinyes could become good friends.

yeah, what about she is surprised by the erin reaction in a good way? trying to save the situation and touched by this? something in her mind can start to change

after all, she do love volc and erin just expressed her opinion, banish/punish or close them in prison it's a bit overwhelm

i do like the idea of being friend kenina and erin

I stand by the decision I made but like I said earlier it just till Kenina can come back and have a chat with you. Maybe it could begin there. I mean if you want to we could make that topic right now.

for come back what do you mean? change a bit his ideas about what to do with them? or take them in prison? (erin would rather fly away XD)
I think that also volc can influence her, she would no feel comfortable to punish her loved one ? I think she may have the time to reconsider its decisions, because she rushed at this conclusion ^^'

I would not suggest resisting arrest that makes it even worse. Also Volc isn't going to prison hes going to get locked in his room